Welcome to another captivating episode of the Spun Today Podcast! In this episode, we dive deep into the creative universe of Marlene Rhein, a distinguished director and writer with an impressive portfolio, featuring her work with iconic artists like Tupac and Amy Winehouse. Join us as Marlene opens up about the struggles and triumphs of her career, from tackling self-doubt to harnessing the power of Transcendental Meditation for overcoming mental barriers.

Explore the paradox of social media’s impact on human connection, gain insights into Marlene's unique writing process, and learn how she transformed personal challenges into a thriving career in filmmaking. Discover the inspiring story behind her dark comedy "Who is Joi Seracha" and her ongoing project "When the Bass Drops."

This episode isn't just a conversation; it’s a masterclass in creativity, perseverance, and the art of storytelling. Whether you're an aspiring writer, a seasoned filmmaker, or simply someone seeking inspiration, this episode offers invaluable nuggets of wisdom for every creative soul. So, tune in and let Marlene Rhein’s journey enlighten your own creative path.

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Check out the episode page for more content from the episode: https://www.spuntoday.com/podcast/263

 

Support Marlene’s next film: WHO IS JOI SERACHA: https://marlenerhein.allyrafundraising.com/

 

Marlene’s IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1280951/?ref_=nm_mv_close

 

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Check out Marlene’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MsGrooveChic

 

Check out Marlene’s Website: https://www.marlenerhein.com/

Tupac video Marlene Directed: https://youtu.be/pjH5V5Tq_oE?si=qzYONnavT6Bh1YZ5

 

Amy Winehouse video Marlene Directed: https://youtu.be/iVaqQe3V498?si=tKQjiNGZweQIaDfc

 

Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway: https://amzn.to/4b9FwfK

The War of Art: https://amzn.to/3VtOzlT

 

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Episode Transcript

Tony [00:00:00]:

Right, definitely. And I. And I don't want to fuck it up. You know what I mean? Like, I feel what I know it could be and, like, what I want it to be. And then it's like that imposter syndrome that we spoke about earlier. Can I deliver on that? And can I even, like, articulate that on the page? You know, like, I feel it, but I.

Marlene Rhein [00:00:15]:

Yes, totally. And this is where you have to say, okay, firi, you want to come along for the ride? You fucking sit in the backseat, buckle up. You want to be there? Fine, but I'm driving. And that's where you, like, you learn to, like, really be in the moment, and you trust.

Tony [00:00:49]:

What's up, folks? What's going on? Welcome to the Spun Today podcast, the only podcast that is anchored in writing but unlimited in scope. I'm your host, Tony Ortiz, and I appreciate you listening. This is episode 263 of the Spun Today podcast, and in this episode, we have an absolute treat. Writer, director, and actress Miss Marlene Brine joins us, and we had a dope conversation that I know all of you will enjoy, especially my fellow creatives out there. Marlene has written, directed, and starred in her own films like the Big Shot Caller, as well as tv shorts like the so so you don't know as well as others, which we get into during this episode. And she tells us a bit about the differences between writing and directing for a tv short versus a film, which is great. A definite highlight for me was hearing about when she directed a music video for Tupac, the all about you music video, and also a music video for Amy Winehouse before she blew up called Fuck me Pumps. So it's cool to hear some behind the scenes information about them and those creative experiences from her perspective.

Tony [00:02:00]:

And probably the biggest highlight for me. For those of you who listen to follow the podcast, know that I love behind the scenes stuff. I love figuring out how the sausage got made, what goes into creating a thing, and in this case, obviously, you know, films and television. And Marlene was gracious enough to go very granular with details, which I absolutely love and shared about her writing process, which, spoiler alert, is pen to paper at first, old school, just like me. And then she shifts over to the final draft writing program to write her screenplays. But we discussed that. We discussed the budgeting for a movie, how to figure that out, what the different roles do on a set, from a line producer versus an investor versus cinematographer versus behind the scenes photographer, which, by the way, to me, sounds like the illest job on a set. And that's probably just my bias of, you know, liking and enjoying behind the scenes type content, but they get to walk around, take pictures, interview folks that are involved with the filming process and that's super dope in my opinion.

Tony [00:03:06]:

Again, probably the best gig on the set is that we spoke about casting, location scouting and getting permits if needed. We talked a little bit about the SAG scale rate for actors, how to calculate the total cost of a film, how to figure out the time needed to shoot, and so much more. I truly had a great time chatting with a fellow creative and wanted once again to thank Marlene Ryan for taking the time and just sharing with us. She has a great new film project that she is working on and tells us about called who is Joi Seracha? Which you my dear spun. Today listeners have the opportunity to invest in if you so choose. She tells us about how that works and how your potential investment would be tax deductible and all that good stuff. So again, thank you Marlene, really appreciate you for coming on the show. We have a great episode for you fine folks to enjoy.

Tony [00:04:00]:

But first I wanted to tell you all about a quick way that you can help support this podcast if you so choose, and then we'll jump right into the episode. Do you want to start your own podcast? Have a great show idea that you want to get out into the masses but don't know quite how to get it from your head out into the world? Well, here's how. Use the podcast host Libsyn. That's who I use to bring the spun today podcast to you. And now you can use them the same way. Using the promo code Spun spun, you can open up your Lipsyn account today and get two months of free podcast hosting. Here's how it works. Once you record your show, you upload it to your Lipsyn account where you can fill in your episode notes, upload your podcast art, and schedule when you want your episodes to release.

Tony [00:04:52]:

Once you do that, Lipson will take care of the rest. They'll distribute your show to Spotify Apple podcasts, YouTube, and all the other podcasters that you choose instantaneously and seamlessly. Again, go to libsyn.com and use the promo code spun spun to get two months free, or use the affiliate link that's in the episode notes. Again, that's lipson.com promo code Spun. Take that great podcast idea from out of your head and put it out into the world. What's up Spun today, listeners? Today we have an absolute treat for you fine folks. Our very special guest is a writer, director, actor, known for, but not limited to, the big shot caller, which is a film that she wrote, directed, and starred in the television shorts that she also wrote, directed, and starred in, which are my parents are crazier than yours and the so so you don't know where. By the way, she won the New York City Web Fest award for best director.

Tony [00:05:57]:

She directed Tupac Shakur's music video, all about you. Yes, that Tupac Shakur. And Amy Winehouse's music video, fuck me pumps. Yes, that Amy Winehouse. And last but certainly not least, she was selected by filmmaker magazine as one of their top 25 new faces of independent film. Ladies and gents, Miss Marlene Ryan is joining us today. Marlene, welcome to the Spun Today podcast.

Marlene Rhein [00:06:29]:

Thank you. Great to be here.

Tony [00:06:31]:

Awesome to have you. So, Marlene, you told me a bit about your new film, who is Joi Seracha? Which has such an original premise that I can't wait for the listeners to hear about a little bit later. So we'll definitely get into all that. But since it's your first time on the pod, I kind of wanted to start in the beginning. What's the origin story of Marlene? Where did you grow up? When did you realize you were creative? How did you get into all this awesome, fun stuff?

Marlene Rhein [00:06:56]:

Yes, it all started one spring day in Manhattan, where I was born. Union Square, to be specific. Anyway, yes, I was born in the city and then grew up on Long island. And I think, like, since the age of four or five, I was, like, always bossing the other kids around on the block. I would be like, okay, we're gonna play library. I'm the librarian, and you guys are taking up books. And I was just, like, super bossy pants and, like, always, like, creating these scenarios, but I was in them, and I knew, like, from the gate that, you know, I wanted to kind of just, like, write direct at whatever, like, create stuff and have it be silly and funny, but then also kind of, I think I developed, like, compassion for other people at a very early age, and I kind of wanted to make a huge difference somehow. So I thought I'll, you know, creative and make a difference.

Marlene Rhein [00:07:48]:

Movies that really, like, touch and inspire people. And so I think since I was a kid, it's something that I've wanted to do. And then as I got older, and I just was so in love with dance. I love dancing almost even more than filmmaking, I would say a huge love of music. And when I was growing up in, like, the eighties, you know, hip hop and its origin, like, old school stuff, I just loved. I was always looking at Eric Bain, rakim, and public enemy, blah, blah, but also, like, punk music. Yeah, huge influence on me. And I decided to, like, start out with music videos after I studied film at Ithaca College.

Marlene Rhein [00:08:25]:

Minored in writing, but, like, still love dancing so much. So music videos was kind of, like, the perfect thing for me at the time. It was like a combination of the poetry, of the juxtaposition of images and music, and my passion for music and filmmaking. And so I used my credit cards after college to build a reel, and I started shooting videos for some unsigned rappers and eventually started getting some work. And then 1996, I was awarded what would be Tupac's last video budget was, like, $300,000. We shot on 35 film over three days in LA, and I was directing videos for a while, and then I kind of went over to London because I felt like Europe was going to be more my thing, and they had such a greater sense of artistry and more respect for, like, cerebral ideas and stuff like that. And I became much more successful directing music videos over there than I was in the States, which felt just very commercial, very, like, lowest common denominator. Not really.

Marlene Rhein [00:09:29]:

Things were created not necessarily for the art of it, but for what would appeal for marketing, blah, blah, blah, I don't know. And I directed Amy Winehouse on Brick Lane in east London. That was 2004. And eventually music started to change. A lot more boy bands were coming out, and I was very disillusioned, and I felt like I wanted to tell stories that mattered. I wanted to make movies. And that's when I kind of transitioned, moved back to the States. I was going between LA and New York, made my first feature film, a big shot caller, which co starred my brother and myself.

Marlene Rhein [00:10:05]:

And that's kind of more about salsa dancing. And then I made a bunch of web series, and I stayed in New York for a while, came back to LA like, four and a half years ago, and now I'm getting ready to make my next film. So that's the origin story.

Tony [00:10:19]:

That's awesome. Definitely a lot there to unpack. Some of which I want to go back to, if you don't mind. Tell me about. Because, like, the listeners of the podcast and, like, what I try to put out is not necessarily a roadmap, because everybody's, like, creative process is different, but kind of expose folks to, like, different paths. So there's not. They're not locked into these, like, cookie cutter type paths, you know, for lack of a better term, towards achieving and just trying to, like, walk towards their creative dreams and aspirations. So wanted to ask you a bit about going back to growing up and stuff like that.

Tony [00:10:56]:

You always kind of bossy, and I guess that's definitely, like, director type vibes, and I would imagine somewhat creative, like, with writing early on and stuff like that. Was going to college in Ithaca. Was that, like, your first, where you started taking it, like, more seriously and something that you knew you wanted to pursue?

Marlene Rhein [00:11:14]:

Yeah, I kind of. I knew. I knew right away, like, what I wanted to do, so, yeah, I studied it there, but. And I think I was always, like, kind of shy, maybe doubted myself a lot. Like, I had these dreams but didn't know. And then, you know, when you have to start shooting film projects and showing them to people. Once I started, like, getting reactions to, like, the comedy in my films, and then I was like, oh, my God. Like, I'm actually good at this.

Marlene Rhein [00:11:40]:

Like, people like my stuff. This is. Yes, I'm gonna do this. You know? So I kind of got that affirmation there, I think.

Tony [00:11:46]:

Right. It definitely eases that, like, imposter syndrome type of thing, that we all, as creative, definitely suffers.

Marlene Rhein [00:11:50]:

Yes. And that doesn't. It doesn't necessarily go away, that imposter syndrome. But I think what happens, and I think we all have self doubt, but some of us more than others, I definitely have been riddled with it. It's been a huge hindrance. No doubt. But I think that as you live and you grow and you learn and you read and you hear other people's stories and you realize that we all have it, then it starts to become this thing where it's just this voice in you that you recognize. You say, oh, there's that voice.

Marlene Rhein [00:12:17]:

It's just a thought. And I think thoughts are, like, for consideration only. And instead of identifying with these thoughts of, like, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve to be making this, or I don't deserve money to make my films, then you just start to say, nope, that's not me. That's just the thought. I'm going to keep going. And I think also making a film or doing anything big or anything where you're kind of exposing yourself, it's vulnerable. Fear is going to step into the picture immediately. And I think as you grow, you start to learn that when you hit the gas and the fear shows up, fear means keep going.

Marlene Rhein [00:12:52]:

It doesn't mean stop. It means you're going in the right direction, actually, and you start to embrace it as opposed to let it shut you down.

Tony [00:12:59]:

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Like, the. Like, the saying goes, usually your achievements or your dreams are on the opposite side of, like, the fear or the resistance that you feel from doing that, so that's cool. So, you. So, while you were at Ithaca, which reminds me of the movie road trip, by the way. Yeah, I can't say that without thinking about that movie. So, you started directing, like, you mentioned, rap artist videos that were, like, unsigned artists, and that was, like, a kind of, like, a melding of your two passions, like, the disciplines that you're learning in school with filmmaking and writing and kind of finding a way creatively to combine it with a passion that you had and something that music genre that, you know, I think.

Marlene Rhein [00:13:43]:

So my. My project. I think my junior year, my big, like, film project was actually a black comedy called McDeath, where it was, like, the corporatization of a funeral. I mean, that was my first film. So it's like, from. From the start, I've been, like, black comedy all the way. It's my thing. But that.

Marlene Rhein [00:14:01]:

Those were, like, the film. That was the film I started making. And then I think senior year, my senior project was, I made a music video to a Queen Latifah song, and that's. That's when the whole music video idea thing started.

Tony [00:14:15]:

Like, you made your own.

Marlene Rhein [00:14:16]:

My own. I made my own, yeah. And then, like, she was performing at Cornell, and I managed to get myself backstage, and I sent her the video. And this is back in the day when, like, video. It was like, video tapes. You know what I mean? Like, three quarter inches, vhs. And I sent it to her. Yeah, yeah.

Marlene Rhein [00:14:31]:

Like, and she had, like, seen it. It was really cool. We had a moment, and I thought maybe she would hire me for videos, but that never happened, but, yeah, but.

Tony [00:14:39]:

That just shows you, like, your tenacity, your drive to, like, literally break down. Break down the door and, like, try to. Try to get in there and try to get in the mix, right?

Marlene Rhein [00:14:46]:

Yes. Yes. I'm terrified, but I do it. It's like that book. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Like, I'm always, like, afraid, but I go for it, you know?

Tony [00:14:54]:

Nice. I got to check that out. I like that.

Marlene Rhein [00:14:56]:

Yes.

Tony [00:14:57]:

So, tell me about the process of. You mentioned putting together reels. Is that kind of, like. Like, in my mind, I just think of actors. They put together, like, snippets of things that they've been in, and they try to use that to, like, leverage it to get, like, management or agents or something like that. Is that similar to the reels that.

Marlene Rhein [00:15:15]:

You put together for directing. I think, like, with the music videos, like, I just. I kind of found an artist. I think his name was Daru. That was the first rapper that I worked with. And I used my credit cards and we shot a music video. And then I did a spec commercial for Adidas where I've always been into dancing and choreography. So we got, like, a bunch of dancers together and I did that.

Marlene Rhein [00:15:38]:

And actually, off of that spec commercial, I wound up getting a music video in London where they loved the underground vibe of that so much and wanted me to replicate that. And that was, like a huge video for me. So, yeah, basically it's kind of like shooting music videos or commercials that you fund yourself just to build a real.

Tony [00:15:56]:

Got it. That's what you mean by the spec? By the spec, yes. Okay. So it's kind of like you shoot it yourself and, you know, it's kind of a gamble, obviously, but it's a way to, on one hand, build your portfolio because it is something creative that you're doing. And also you try to, like, sell it to Adidas. Like, you reach. Reach out and pitch it to them type of thing.

Marlene Rhein [00:16:15]:

I can't remember if I sent it to them or I told them ahead of time, and they wound up, like, sending me a bunch of. Bunch of stuff, like clothes and gear and stuff like that, but not necessarily like, to sell it to them, but it's really just to show that you can direct and so, and to get more directing work.

Tony [00:16:30]:

Gotcha. And, like that, it pads your portfolio. And for them, I would imagine on the business side, it's kind of like a marketing write off type of thing, I guess. Kind of like a win win kind of.

Marlene Rhein [00:16:41]:

I don't know if, like, they gain that much for it other than, like, if it's super amazing, then they might use it. And that's happened in a few instances. Not with me, but. But, yeah, gotcha. It's a little bit of exposure for them. And then I think, like, people do that a lot with short films. Like, people who want to make movies will create a short of it as a proof of concept. And, like, whiplash did that, and then they wound up, like, getting the funding.

Marlene Rhein [00:17:05]:

And I've made a few shorts.

Tony [00:17:07]:

I love whiplash.

Marlene Rhein [00:17:09]:

Yeah, I know a really good film.

Tony [00:17:11]:

So now tell me about. Because that's actually one of the questions that I had for you, your, I guess, like, differences between when you go in with the mindset of, from either writing perspective and directing perspective. I'm curious about between shorts versus feature.

Marlene Rhein [00:17:28]:

Yes. I mean, shorts are good. If you haven't maybe directed that much and you kind of want to prove to yourself that you can do it, it's certainly a good thing. I feel like at this point, because I've done so many, and all the web series I've done, they're kind of like a series of shorts for me. I'm kind of done with it. I feel like I want to make something viable and big. I want, you know, to make a movie and to get it out there and have be seen by a lot of people. So I'm kind of done with doing shorts, but I feel like if you're starting out and you haven't really directed that much, it's definitely a good idea to do a short film just to show to yourself that you can tell a story and to show other people like, that might be a good way to get funding for the future.

Marlene Rhein [00:18:10]:

Although for me, at this point, I feel like it's way too much of an investment of time and money to do that instead of just going to.

Tony [00:18:17]:

Make the movie instead of just bootstrapping it and doing it yourself type of thing.

Marlene Rhein [00:18:22]:

Yeah. Yeah. So I've made one feature, and I have three now I want to make, and there's one. There's a hip hop dance movie that I love. It's like my passion project, but it's going to take, like, at least a million dollars to make. And so that's kind of why I took a step back and I wrote this other film, who is Joi Seracha with, like, seven locations. It's gonna be shot in two weeks because I want to make a movie so bad that I knew, like, okay, let me write something that's, like, super doable, super low budget that I'm not gonna wait around to, like, raise money for. I mean, I still have to raise money for it, which is what I'm doing.

Marlene Rhein [00:18:59]:

But it just, in my mind, became something a lot easier and more manageable to do.

Tony [00:19:04]:

Gotch. Okay. And that is that the. When the bass drops.

Marlene Rhein [00:19:08]:

Yeah, when the bass drops, that. That's the movie. The passion project movie. Yes.

Tony [00:19:12]:

I saw a snippet of it. I don't remember if it was on your Instagram or YouTube, maybe. And it definitely gave me. It was. It was pretty dope. It gave me a kind of, like, underdog, eight mile type vibes.

Marlene Rhein [00:19:22]:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I shot. I shot a short film for that, but that. The female. Exactly. It's very much like, like eight mile. It's like Rocky.

Marlene Rhein [00:19:32]:

But in the world of dance, it's where I play this woman who's like, you know, mid late forties and as a kid, loved hip hop music, wanted to dance, but never followed that dream because she didn't believe in herself, didn't think she could have it because she was an outsider. And then all this stuff happens in her life, and she's like an alcoholic working at Home Depot, and, you know, her father is dying. And she comes across this box of old school tapes from the eighties with all the music that she loved, and she pops it into this, the Walkman that's in the box and starts playing. Strafe set it off, and it reminds her of the club day. And it just, she starts crying because the music was what made her feel so alive. And it's a movie is kind of almost like a love letter to that. That music. You know, it was a time, it was such an electric time for us in the late eighties with all this amazing music.

Marlene Rhein [00:20:21]:

And people went to the clubs and there were no cell phones then. So when you went to the clubs and you went to dance, you were connected to people even if you never spoke to them. And there was an electricity, and it was palpable and it was like a movement. And, and I cry sometimes when I think about it because I miss that. I love music so much, and I love that music so much, and I love the movement that it was. And so this movie is really about that. And it's also about self esteem and about depression and breaking out of it and how doing what you love, dancing to music that you love, can lift you up out of the small self you think you are to, to your destiny, to who you were always meant to become. That's what that movie is about.

Tony [00:21:05]:

That's awesome. That's beautiful. And you touched on something with, like, the cell phones, like you mentioned. And it's kind of like a double edged sword, right? Like all this technology and, and just like, social media and things like that, that are, that is so prevalent nowadays. When you have on one side, it's like a great tool and option for, like, creatives to harness it and be able to, to do things themselves and film things themselves and market things themselves. They don't have, like, gatekeepers per se. But on the other side, on the flip side of that, you have the inability of, like, that type of romantic connection with folks like you mentioned and times that are just, like moments in time that, you know, you don't, you're not worried about being, like, captured on and posted on Instagram, or people are just literally stuck on their phones and zombie scrolling, as they say. And, and instead of focusing on connecting with the folks that are physically in the room with you and stuff like that.

Tony [00:21:57]:

So, yeah.

Marlene Rhein [00:21:58]:

Yeah, that's. It's crazy. Like, I, you know, go to clubs sometimes because I love to dance, and I just can't believe that instead of dancing on the dance floor, all these people are just filming the dj and it's like. And so, and I think also, like, and I write about this a lot. Like, loneliness is more prevalent now than ever. And I think a lot of it, this, this disconnected society we live in, it's like everyone is using their phone or filming something and no one is present. And so you get this sense of just being alone in a crowd all the time because everyone is disconnected. But like you said, there are great uses for it.

Marlene Rhein [00:22:36]:

Like, I've discovered so many encouraging things on Instagram, like, just scrolling something, someone will say something that I need to hear the most. And so that's beautiful and wonderful, but what if we could manage it better? Like, what if we could, like, use them less and then when we're out and social, like, connect with people? Like, that would be ideal, but I feel like mental health and the society is diving, nose diving, like, fast. And it's because of this disconnection, and I hope that it changes.

Tony [00:23:07]:

Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. And it's like the. It's like a weird juxtaposition between the ability and the technology to be more connected, you know, with anybody in the world than ever before in the history of time while simultaneously being, like, siloed and in our. Within our own bubbles and couldn't be further apart. It's like, yeah. Such an interesting dynamic there.

Marlene Rhein [00:23:28]:

Yes, totally. Totally.

Tony [00:23:31]:

So the. I want to ask you from, like, a creative perspective, the. So that movie is, and I'm coming from the place of, for example, just to take a step back, I ran a couple of books. I have, like, my own personal, you know, creative outlets, obviously, with writing and with podcasting, but I have my own personal creative goals. Like, for example, I wrote a science fiction time travel novel. I see that as a longer series of at least three books, leaving it open for more. And I want to eventually adapt that to screenplays and eventually pie in the sky kind of like, dream of mine is to, like, see it on a screen.

Marlene Rhein [00:24:10]:

Yeah.

Tony [00:24:10]:

But I, and I know that different folks, again, going back to an original point that we were speaking about earlier, there's, like, different approaches. There's no, like, right way or wrong way. Some folks just, like, write screenplays directly and, you know, shop those around. Some people, you know, go the route of, you know, adapting, like, short stories or novels into, like, series or features. And I'm really interested in what you mentioned of when the, when the bass drops, like that kind of being your north Star creatively is the way I took it. But to get there, you realize from a practical perspective, I guess, like kind of more like from a movie business perspective, you realize that you need to take certain steps to get there in terms of, like, the funding and so forth, which is where the idea for who is Joi Seracha came from, which to me, I kind of took that as you have not a stepping stone, like in a, like, to belittle it or anything like that, but that it's a way to get off, like, your creative impulses and your creative outlet, but still going in the direction of what your North Star is. And when the bass drops, does that kind of sort of make sense?

Marlene Rhein [00:25:25]:

Yes. Yes. And tell me about how this, your science fiction thing, like, where are you kind of, like, stuck with it. Are you, are you having doubts? Like, what's, where are you at with that?

Tony [00:25:35]:

Well, I, I wrote the first one. It's been four years, I want to say, when I published the first novel. And I, you know, since the beginning, since before, before writing the first one, it was always a, well, it honestly started as like, a short story, and then I just kept writing and writing and writing and I was like, oh, well, I have enough for definitely for a novel. And then it just, you know how ideas, like, when you're writing, they just, like, grow and start, like, going in different directions and, like, evolving into different things sometimes. That's what happened with that one. And so it was always, like, I saw it as a longer work, like creative work and, but just like writing the second book, which I did start, but I've started and stopped like, dozens of times over the last, like, four years since. And so much so that I distract myself with other writing projects. Like, you know, I get writer's block with that.

Tony [00:26:26]:

And then I published last year a collection of short stories which, like, I'm proud of and I love.

Marlene Rhein [00:26:31]:

And, you know, you really want to.

Tony [00:26:32]:

Write your, I want to continue that series. Exactly. So then, and, you know, I always go back around to it and I know I'm going to do it, but it's just getting over whatever, like, creative humps and hurdles and I don't know if you're familiar with Steven Pressfield's work and his.

Marlene Rhein [00:26:48]:

Yes, the war of art.

Tony [00:26:50]:

Exactly. I love it. It's like complete resistance. You know what I mean? And it's like, I have resistance towards that project, so much so that I'm doing other projects just, like, blocking myself.

Marlene Rhein [00:27:02]:

So it's this resistance to it because you love it so much. And I think that what the resistance is, it's the fear. It's a protection mechanism. And I am totally going through the same thing, too, that can relate to it. It's. What happens is there's a part of us that wants to protect us so bad, it wants to protect us from the failure of it not happening or the fear of it not happening wants to protect you from the thing that you love the most. And so that's where the resistance comes in. Because I think there are these thoughts that say, well, come on, this is like, too pie in the sky.

Marlene Rhein [00:27:31]:

You're dreaming too big. It's never gonna fucking happen. This is a huge science fiction thing. Or for me, it's a huge movie. No one's gonna let you star in 1 million. And it's that fear of it not happening that says, okay, well, don't do that because I don't want you to waste your time. I don't want you to spend months Michael bio while you're working on this. And then what happens if it doesn't happen? What a waste it will have been.

Marlene Rhein [00:27:53]:

That's right.

Tony [00:27:54]:

Right. Definitely. And I. And I don't want to fuck it up. You know what I mean? Like, I feel what I know it could be and, like, what I want it to be. And then it's like that imposter syndrome that we spoke about earlier. Can I deliver on that? And can I, like, articulate that on the page? You know, like, I feel it, but.

Marlene Rhein [00:28:10]:

I haven't, like, manifested it totally. And this is where you have to say, okay, fear. You want to come along for the ride. You fucking sit in the backseat. Buckle up. You want to be there, fine, but I'm driving. And that's where you, like, you learn to, like, really be in the moment and you trust. And I do a lot of things to get to that place, like exercise, because you have to start learning to get out of your mind and not giving your mind control.

Marlene Rhein [00:28:32]:

I do transcendental meditation, 20 minutes a day, morning and night.

Tony [00:28:36]:

Nice. I actually just took a TM course online, so I would love to, like. Yeah, I took the, like, one of those, like, intro TM courses. Yeah, like, tell you about it, but I haven't gone to do, like, the actual, you know, like, get my mantra and all that stuff. And I'm hesitating with that. Even. So, I would love to, like, circle back.

Marlene Rhein [00:28:53]:

Yeah. Oh, well, I have to say, it's a game changer. It really is. It's really helped me, like, alleviate a lot of anxiety, which I deal with, but also, like, it's hands down been the thing that's allowed me to separate. When you're able to separate from your thoughts instead of identify with them, then your world changes. Because when you identify with these thoughts of fear and lack and blah, blah, then you're frozen and you can't move ahead. But when you can, like, be the witnesser and say, oh, it's just a thought, there's that thought again. It's like.

Marlene Rhein [00:29:23]:

It's really trying to protect me. It's telling me, like, I'm a nobody. Who am I to write this? Blah, blah? You put it aside and you say, okay, I see you there and you don't fight it, but you let it be and you carry on. And so with your thing, you find a way to say, there's that thought. It doesn't mean anything, but let me. It's like being, you know, there's that old native american phrase, the story about there's two wolves in your head. There's the evil and the good, and they're both fighting. It's like, well, which one is going to survive? The one that you feed.

Marlene Rhein [00:29:56]:

So you choose to dwell in, to swim in, to fly in thoughts of beauty and creativity and enthusiasm and inspiration, because that's the only thing that's real. Love is the only thing that's real. And if you can choose that path, the other stuff is going to go away. It's noise, and we all deal with it. But if you choose that, then what happens is you get into the flow. Like, for me, I go to this one cafe I love, get my cold brew, whatever, and I sit there and I'm writing. And once I lock into the writing, when you're in that feeling of, I fucking love this, I feel so alive. I can't wait till people experience what I'm experiencing when I write this, you're in the flow, and then nothing can touch you.

Marlene Rhein [00:30:38]:

And so it's just a matter of jumping into that pool and getting into the water, even though there's that fear. It might be cold. Do I jump in? You jump in, and you get in the water, and then nothing can touch you. And so you have to practice getting into the flow. And when you're in the flow, you're okay. And you know you're okay because when you're feeling the love and inspiration, that's the right place to be. That's how you know you're in the right place to be. The other voice, the fear, the doubt, the like, who am I to write this? That's a phantom that you've created in your mind that thinks it's protecting you.

Tony [00:31:09]:

That's awesome. Thank you for that. Definitely motivating. So do you feel that with the TM, have you done other, like, guided meditations, like the wake up app or headspace or anything like that?

Marlene Rhein [00:31:22]:

I have. I have. I use aura a lot and I actually, I've recorded a lot of. I'm like a meditation teacher, guide on insight timer. I have a lot of guided meditations, but I do that and sometimes, and I do a lot of tapping. It's called eft, emotional freedom technique. And there are free ones on YouTube, and I use the free ones on YouTube all the time. And you can tap for anxiety, tap for fear of lack, money issues, self worth, whatever you're going through, you just put in the YouTube search bar, tapping for whatever.

Marlene Rhein [00:31:51]:

And that, I feel, is very helpful because that actually physically, they call it psychological acupuncture. And that, like, physically moves the energy through your body, might be moved to tears, whatever. So I do that. I do guided meditations sometimes. Like, a lot of them, I like to do hypnosis. A lot of them are free on YouTube. I use, I use them all.

Tony [00:32:10]:

Nice. That's awesome. Do you, how, how would you compare, let's say, like, tM, for example? Like you mentioned, it's a game changer. Is it? Because for me, it's kind of hard. Like, I gravitated towards it for, like, creatives, for example, that, that I follow and respect. Like, like Rick Rubin, Sam Harris, Jerry Seinfeld, like, all these folks that are, like, proponents of TM that. And I'm, and I'm, like, really into their creative work and, like, their interviews and podcasts and stuff like that. So that's where, like, I first started learning about TM and kind of, like, gravitate towards it.

Tony [00:32:42]:

But then, and I've done headspace, for example, and it definitely helps. And I feel, like, more centered and calm. And I actually did an episode recently where I spoke about this. I did, like a cycling marathon called the five borough that they do here in New York. And I was mentioning, I've done it a few times for a few years in the past with a buddy of mine, and I was mentioning on an episode where I was breaking down my experience with it or whatever, and how I was, like, going up the Verrazano bridge, which is, like, the last long incline, and I had kind of this epiphany where I started, like, just telling myself. Myself, breathe in through the nose, breathe out through the mouth, you know, just focus on the breath, like that type of stuff. And I was like, oh, shit. There's, like, practical applications to meditation, and I never, like, made that connection.

Marlene Rhein [00:33:26]:

Wow. That's cool.

Tony [00:33:27]:

Yeah. But I kind of tell myself I'm, like, how much different could TM be than just, like, guided meditation? You know what I mean?

Marlene Rhein [00:33:34]:

Well, yes. Yeah, totally. Totally. It's very different. I'll tell you why. The one thing that I just love about it is what stops most people in their meditation is thoughts that come in, and we feel very disturbed by our own thoughts. And TM, actually, the way they teach it is you allow them. You don't make any effort at all to try to push them away, or they just coexist in your meditation, whereas other meditations, they'll talk about the monkey mind or, like, whatever, and it's easy to kind of get stopped in your tracks and to lose hope or get frustrated because the thoughts come in.

Marlene Rhein [00:34:10]:

But TM, actually, they show you how to kind of use them and how to allow them, and I don't know. It's made a huge difference. It feels very different from other meditations because you're not. There's no efforting. There's no, like, okay, do this. Now try this. Now breathe in. Like, no, it's.

Marlene Rhein [00:34:27]:

It's kind of. It takes over, and you surrender to it, and it really kind of takes you into a deeper state of relaxation that no other meditation I've tried has done.

Tony [00:34:37]:

That's also. I think you just motivated me to actually take the next step and just book that first TM session there.

Marlene Rhein [00:34:44]:

Nice. I think it'll make a difference in your life.

Tony [00:34:47]:

That's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that, Marlene. So, I wanted to. You mentioned, like, I see the creative trajectory, right? Like, when you mentioned Gwena Ithaca doing. Teaming up with the local rapper, starting to, you know, film your own stuff, and, you know, just going. Going to clubs, being. Being in that scene, you know, that encounter with Queen Latifah.

Tony [00:35:08]:

How did. And since Pac is, like, one of my favorite rappers, I wanted to go back to, like, that experience that you mentioned of shooting the music video with him, the all about you. And because I kind of. I see that connection there, like, from. Just from grassroots, you know, starting it yourself and just being in the mix and just building up your reels and stuff like that. How do you go from, like, that level to. All right, now I got this. I think you said, like a $300,000 grant or however it works, whatever it's called.

Marlene Rhein [00:35:39]:

Budget.

Tony [00:35:40]:

Yeah, budget. There you go. You can, like, how does that. How does that leap happen? And then obviously, you know, tell us about the experience with, like, working with Poc.

Marlene Rhein [00:35:48]:

Okay, so, first of all, it's really interesting, because when you're in it at that time, you think, oh, shit, I got it made. This is it. Finally, it's happening. Just directed Tupac's video, and now I'm made, you know?

Tony [00:36:01]:

Yeah, yeah.

Marlene Rhein [00:36:03]:

And then, like, I would get a couple of other tracks in for, you know, music videos to write the ideas for. I did crickets. Like, nothing. Like, after that, I was like, back to the struggle, and that was so disappointing. But, I mean, that's what. And this is like life, you know, constantly forced to pivot and to, you know, you're constantly turned in this direction, that direction. It's like, what do you do now? Do you despair? Do you know? No. You use your resilience and you get inspired for what's next, and you create something new.

Marlene Rhein [00:36:36]:

And that's what I feel like I did. I bumped up against a lot of frustration with music videos, but anyway. And that's kind of what turned me towards filmmaking and making movies eventually. But to go back to the experience itself, it was very stressful, obviously, because he was such a huge artist. You know, sometimes the bigger the artist, the less creative you can be, because they have their ideas of what they want it to be. So I didn't feel, like, creatively. It was very rewarding for me at all. The only aspect of the concept that I came up with was to have him, like, in the bathroom on the toilet bowl, looking at magazines of all the girls.

Marlene Rhein [00:37:13]:

Yeah. Like, that was my idea.

Tony [00:37:15]:

Nice.

Marlene Rhein [00:37:15]:

But other than that, you know, there are a few moments when I was, like, talking to him or hanging out with him on the set, and it was so surreal. And I was like, holy shit. Like, this is crazy. Like, we're just talking to each other, like human being to human being. And he was down to earth. He was a human. He had his insecurities. You could kind of see certain things, like, oh, shit, he's human like anyone else.

Marlene Rhein [00:37:38]:

And that was wild. And he was nice. I got along really well with him. And at the end, he said, I know that you didn't get to spread your wings on this, and I'd like to give you a chance to do that more. Let's do work in the future. And I was like, cool. And then he died.

Tony [00:37:52]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. That's definitely a dope experience, though. And. Yes, and that's a dynamic that I would have never considered where that makes sense, as you say it. Like, such, such a big artist, you know, he kind of has his say with things within that, like music video space. Right? Like, it's not like I know or I've heard at least, definitely correct me if I'm wrong. Like, with tv shows, you have the showrunner, which is pretty much like the shot call or whatever they say goes on the movie sites.

Tony [00:38:22]:

The director who's the shot caller, everything they say goes. But kind of like in the music video, it's like everybody's there because of the artist. So it kind of sort of makes sense that they, especially if they, you know, the bigger their ego or the bigger their star or whatever it is, they kind of get their. Their say more so than other folks that are involved in the whole creative process. Yes, that makes sense.

Marlene Rhein [00:38:44]:

Yeah.

Tony [00:38:45]:

And how was it working with Amy? And was Amy first or Pac first?

Marlene Rhein [00:38:50]:

Tupac was first and then Amy. So Tupac was in 96, and Amy Winehouse was in 2004. So eight years later. And this was before where she really blew up in the US. She was kind of on the rise in the UK.

Tony [00:39:04]:

And all that time, sorry to cut you off, but all that time in between, you, you were still, like, working with all, like, a bunch of other artists, like you mentioned within, I would.

Marlene Rhein [00:39:15]:

Say, like after the Tupac thing, the same year, I think I went over to England. I was like, oh, it sucks in America. I'm going to go to England. I didn't know anyone. I somehow took risks and found a production company to represent me and tried to get music videos, did a few little things, very tiny things. And then came this one group called another level, which was like a sort of put together r and b pop group. And they did a cover of Freak me by Silk, and we shot also. Yes.

Marlene Rhein [00:39:45]:

And that's. That's the one where they saw the Adidas spec and they wanted the exact same vibe, like the underground kind of salmon colored vibe. And I had dancers and I had Capoeira and these Rottweilers, and it was. It was like this big budget thing that turned out really cool. And that video went to, like, number one in the charts, and I became, like, one of the top ten sort of, like, r and b hip hop video directors in England at that time. And that was an amazing chapter of my life. That was, like, I was getting work, I was getting paid well, and I was traveling because, like, people there in Europe, everything's so close to each other that you can just hop over, do this, that, and everyone was doing that. They'd set an idea, like, oh, I want to shoot this in Rome.

Marlene Rhein [00:40:29]:

And that's what I did. And we went and shot a video in Rome, or, I want to shoot this in Jamaica. We went and shot, like, I was able to travel everywhere, get paid for it, stay in hotels and create.

Tony [00:40:38]:

It was literally the dream.

Marlene Rhein [00:40:42]:

Yes. I've been looking back. I just wish, I don't know, maybe I did that longer. I don't know. It was. It was wild. It was amazing, and it was great. I felt, like, a little lonely over there because, like, people all had their friends, and I was there and I was working, but I didn't really have, like, friends or there were people I worked with in the film industry.

Marlene Rhein [00:41:01]:

But that was kind of it. Like, creatively, it was great, but personally, not so much. So eventually, I kind of came back and I just, you know, and you sort of think, well, I'm big here. I'm successful doing this. Then I'll just translate that to making movies.

Tony [00:41:16]:

Right? Gotcha.

Marlene Rhein [00:41:18]:

And I had no idea that it would be so hard to make a movie, you know?

Tony [00:41:23]:

Yeah. Before we get into the movies, I definitely want to go there next. Tell me about Amy Winehouse.

Marlene Rhein [00:41:29]:

Amy was very cool. She was kind of, like a tomboy. Like, she did her thing. She. When we were, like, filming the video, she would not. I told her, like, turn a certain way, and she would not. She's like, nope, not left side, only right side. Like, she was very self conscious about certain profile, very easy to work with, very down to earth, but, like, you know, like I said, tomboyish, you know? And when it was time for the edit, she showed up by herself, not even with, like, anyone from the record label, and she just saw it.

Marlene Rhein [00:41:57]:

She's like, yeah, cool. Let me watch it again. Yep, my favorite video so far. I love it. Cool. And then she left, you know, she's, like, super cool, super down to earth. She was having, like, some issues with, like, some guy that she liked at the time. Like, she definitely had, like, you know, male issues back then.

Marlene Rhein [00:42:15]:

Like, certain self esteem regarding men. Like, she was, like, very confident, very cool. But you could kind of see, like, other stuff happening. Yeah, it's just interesting. I'm always, like, interested psychologically and, like, how people grow up and. And what they're dealing with now as a result. And I was just noticing a lot of that stuff.

Tony [00:42:32]:

Gotcha. And I'll be remiss if I don't ask this. You mentioned that, like, when you first went over to England, you got signed up with a. Was it a production company or an agency, you mentioned?

Marlene Rhein [00:42:44]:

Yeah. For music videos, you have to be repped by a production company, and that's how you get work.

Tony [00:42:50]:

Gotcha. And to get signed on with them, I would imagine you show them, like, your stuff, the reels that you've done before, the Tupac video. Then they. They, like, sign you up, and then they try to get you. Get you work, and then they get a piece of, like, whatever it is that you made, you earn and.

Marlene Rhein [00:43:04]:

Exactly.

Tony [00:43:05]:

Gotcha. Okay. And then all those other music videos came, like, through them. So. Yes, then eventually. Then you decide to move back to the states. Did you move back to New York or did you go straight to LA?

Marlene Rhein [00:43:19]:

I think I was, like, going back and forth between LA and London. And then in, like, 2002, I moved from LA to New York. Back to New York, and stayed there for, like, 17 years.

Tony [00:43:36]:

Wow. Okay. And what part of New York again?

Marlene Rhein [00:43:39]:

I was in Manhattan then. I was in Queens for all. I was in Astoria, Queens, for many years.

Tony [00:43:44]:

Shout out to Queens. The best borough, of course.

Marlene Rhein [00:43:47]:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Tony [00:43:51]:

So tell me about your writing process itself. Like, you mentioned, you would go to cafes and stuff like that. Is it, like, pen to paper type style?

Marlene Rhein [00:44:01]:

Yeah, for sure. I'm old school. Yeah. Yes. And also, like, writing is such a lonely thing, and so that's why I kind of like to do it at cafes, because you could be alone, but around other people, you know, and you feel like you're. You've been out, you know?

Tony [00:44:15]:

Right.

Marlene Rhein [00:44:15]:

So I definitely. I definitely go to cafes and pen and paper first. Always sit in the corner, and music inspires me a lot. Like, when I wrote my first movie, the big shot caller, I was listening to Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah on repeat, because it's just so emotional to me. And I think anything that you want to open the heart, you know, music that opens the heart, it just gets things moving, like, non stop. So I'll use music for the preliminary stages, you know, like, I'll come up with the characters, and sometimes, like, lines of dialogue come to me. Like, I can't shut it off. It's almost like, you know, like those psychics who, like, see things or, you know what I mean? Like, clairvoyance.

Marlene Rhein [00:44:52]:

It doesn't stop for me. Like, dialogue doesn't stop. That's definitely my strongest point. It's structure and plot that I have problems with. But anyway, I'll create a character. They start speaking to me immediately. I write stuff down. I write jokes down.

Marlene Rhein [00:45:03]:

I write funny things. Or very often, I'll think of the ending and how emotional. Like, what do I want to teach people? What's the message here? Is it. Is it about hope? Is it that, you know, love conquers all? Is it that you have to look within, you know, and I'll think about what the theme is and what the ending is, and I'll write it down, and then I'll kind of work backwards. A lot of. I have legal pads of so many of them, and I can write stuff. And then when I feel like I have, I create what I call the skeleton, and then I plug in plot and character, and then I go to the computer, and that's when I start filling it in with, like, you know, lines of action and dialogue and stuff like that.

Tony [00:45:40]:

Gotcha. Okay, so real quick, very quick aside, have you heard Malcolm Gladwell's revisionist History podcast where he tells a story about how Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah came to be?

Marlene Rhein [00:45:53]:

No.

Tony [00:45:54]:

You are going to fucking love this story. I'm definitely going to send it to you so you can listen to the full thing. It's a podcast that he has, and he usually tells two or three stories within a half hour. So it's probably a ten or 15 minutes story. But it's so crazy. I forget who was. I'm just gonna very high level, like, paraphrase it. But essentially, it was.

Tony [00:46:19]:

The Hallelujah song was written and performed by it, by someone once upon a time, and then that person could never get it to go, or, like, the record label that they were on didn't like it, or whatever the case may be. But that person was really into the song and used to perform it live all the time. And I think. I think it was. JEFF BUCKLEy was, like, in the audience or something, and then asked that person if he could do a rendition of that song, and then they agreed to it, and I'm butchering the story. But then Jeff Buckley started doing it, and there were, like, a bunch of different versions of it than the, like, the famous version now and there. His record label wouldn't put it out either, and then it was, like, on a b side of something. And one day.

Marlene Rhein [00:47:11]:

Leonard Cohen? Yes, Leonard Cohen.

Tony [00:47:13]:

Yes, yes, yes. Leonard Cohen. Leonard Cohen. It was, like, on the. On the b side of something. And then this housekeeper in Brooklyn was, like, cleaning this record executives apartment or house one day, and she just grabs the cd and puts it in. He used to get, like, I think, like, a bunch of, like, different cds and tapes and stuff like that to, like, here to see if he would sign people or something like that. And she, like, put it on randomly while she was cleaning the house, left it in, and then that record exec heard it, then, you know, immediately, like, signed him or something like that.

Tony [00:47:46]:

And, like, from there is where the song. Song became popular and, like, blew up and stuff like that. And it's like this beautiful story of, like, happenstance and, like, this, like, sliding doors, like, type of thing. And I completely butchered the story. So I apologize to anybody listening.

Marlene Rhein [00:47:59]:

No. Oh, my God. That makes. It makes me want to cry. Do you know why? Because that is the fucking essence. That's the thing. Like, as artists, we create things. And you know, in your heart, they're beautiful, but these fucking people who decide who objectively, who judge and decide, no, your shit's not good enough, or, I don't like that.

Tony [00:48:20]:

The fucking stuff like that. Yeah.

Marlene Rhein [00:48:23]:

Yes. And. And something so beautiful and divine can, like, fucking sit in a drawer never to be seen or heard again because of these bullshit chase makers with their bullshit tastes, like. And then it's just the miracle of just one person. Like, bringing it to light can change everything. Like, that is. So it should give us all hope to keep going. In fact, Maharishi, who is the founder of transmonitation, when asked what is the key to success, he said two words, conviction and perseverance or persistence.

Marlene Rhein [00:49:02]:

Conviction and persistence.

Tony [00:49:03]:

Nice.

Marlene Rhein [00:49:04]:

And so, for us, as creatives or artists, your only job is to create your stuff, believe in it, and persist. That's all you can do, right?

Tony [00:49:14]:

Definitely.

Marlene Rhein [00:49:14]:

Yeah, dude, that story makes me cry because what a beautiful song. Like, and it could have just never came out because of the world we live in with people and their taste. You know what I mean?

Tony [00:49:25]:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I. About your writing process. So I do something very similar. I always start, like, pen to paper, whether it's, like, a short with, like, anything, a short story, longer idea. And actually my first book, which is. I call it the poor man's war of art, because it's very much so within that vein, it's called make way for you, which is a collection of tips for getting out of your own way. And it's a collection of, like, free writing.

Tony [00:49:55]:

So I have a bunch of notebooks where I just do free writing. Like, I'll sit, you know, with my pen and paper and just start writing first thing that comes to mind, type of thing. Very, like, flow state style. And then after filling out, like, a notebook or two, when I. Way back in the beginning, when I started, you know, trying to, like, take writing and, like, just creative pursuits, like, seriously. And as, instead of, you know, just, like, a side hobby type of thing, I started, like, reading them back and realized that it was, like, it became me speaking to myself and, like, trying to, like, motivate and inspire myself to pursue writing. And I, like, I saw that through line within it with, within those, like, freely written thoughts. And then I put together that first book, which is essentially, like, a collection of those.

Tony [00:50:41]:

And it's very much so, like, for creatives and stuff like that. But I. Similar to your writing process. Like, I always start pen to paper, and then if I'm writing, like, a fiction story, like, I'll. Then, you know, when I get to a point where I know what the story is or how I want it to end or how I want to, you know, if I start with the ending, which I do sometimes, like, I know what I. Where I want to get to, and then I, like, work backwards from there. Once I have, like, enough, then I'll, you know, go to the computer and then start, like, transcribing things in a writing program called Scrivener is what I use.

Marlene Rhein [00:51:12]:

Oh, I've heard of it.

Tony [00:51:13]:

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, I couldn't recommend it enough. It's very user friendly. It's very Microsoft word style, but it also gives you a ton of other writing options. You can put it in an index card version. You can move the index cards around, and then it literally moves the text within the chapters around. You have separate folders for characters, and you can have, like, character cards where you fill in, like, background stories and stuff like that, of characters that don't necessarily make it into the, like, script itself and a bunch of, like, cool, like, little tools like that. But that's, like, my writing process, so I'm definitely with you.

Marlene Rhein [00:51:50]:

Very similar.

Tony [00:51:51]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marlene Rhein [00:51:52]:

That's cool. Do you write in cafes, too?

Tony [00:51:55]:

I don't.

Marlene Rhein [00:51:57]:

Okay.

Tony [00:51:57]:

That I don't. I usually, usually at home, I would say, or sometimes they even like, bike riding. Like, I'll stop. Like, I carry a notebook with me, like, a small one. Like, I'll stop and write something. If, like, something comes to mind, I write down on my phone. A cool thing with Scrivener is that you can download the scrivener app as well on your phone and.

Marlene Rhein [00:52:16]:

Oh, wow. Like, on the go if you have notes.

Tony [00:52:19]:

Exactly. And then they'll all. They'll automatically be on my computer, like, when I open scriven on the computer so I don't have to, like, anything fancy, whatever. It, like, syncs up, like, perfectly so I can, like, pick up where I leave off, like, if I take the subway or. Or whatever.

Marlene Rhein [00:52:32]:

Wow. I like that.

Tony [00:52:33]:

Yeah, it's. It's pretty cool. I definitely recommend it.

Marlene Rhein [00:52:36]:

No, it's more, like, for pros, though.

Tony [00:52:39]:

Mmm. Yeah, they have, like, it's not. I know there's a. What's that writing program for, like, screenplays.

Marlene Rhein [00:52:47]:

Final draft.

Tony [00:52:47]:

Final draft. Yeah, it does. Okay, that. I was definitely gonna ask you that. It doesn't have, like, a screenplay version, but it has. For. For pros, it has, like, different, like, short story version or, like, longer literature versions. And it gives you, like, a few different formats to, like, play around with, but it doesn't have a screenplay option.

Marlene Rhein [00:53:06]:

Okay. No, that's cool. I want to check it out.

Tony [00:53:09]:

Yeah.

Marlene Rhein [00:53:10]:

For my other writing.

Tony [00:53:12]:

And it does, like, for exporting as well. Like, you can export it either, like, as a PDF or as a. As a word doc. You can export it as, like, it gives you the option to, like, put it in, like, the format that, like, kindles take, which I forget off the top of my head what it is, but it, like, walks you through, like, the whole thing, depending on how, you know, you want to export it. So it's pretty cool and it's pretty inexpensive. Inexpensive. I think it was, like 60 or $80, like, for the program, like, in total. So it's pretty.

Tony [00:53:42]:

It definitely does a lot for, like, what it is.

Marlene Rhein [00:53:44]:

Cool.

Tony [00:53:46]:

Now, about the movies. Let's say you. You're in a cafe, you have an idea for a movie. You start writing it, pen to paper, you transfer it to.

Marlene Rhein [00:53:54]:

And then someone next to me starts talking on their cell phone, really loudly, of course, and I start pretending I'm on the other line of it. It's my biggest pet peeve. Anyway.

Tony [00:54:07]:

Oh, man. I was like, that reminds me. I was with a buddy of mine that I do the bike riding with. We took our bikes to get tune ups, and then we were at the coffee shop down the block waiting for the bikes to be ready because they said it would be like 20 minutes, half hour or something like, that, and there was this dude next to us that just sat down and then he just started talking to me. I knew his whole life story within like 15 minutes. And he was like in construction and how he got into a fight with the foreman and then he sued and then he made money. And then from that he didn't have to work again. And then he went and I was, I was just like, what? I knew his son was a chiropractor.

Tony [00:54:46]:

And it all started cuz I literally, I was sitting in my chair and I just like stretched. And he was like, oh, do you have lower back pain? I was like, no. He was like, oh, my son's a good chiropractor. And blah, blah. And for like 1520 minutes he just like chewed our ears off.

Marlene Rhein [00:55:00]:

So, yeah, at least he was talking to you and not into a cell phone, disregarding your personal space.

Tony [00:55:07]:

I know, right?

Marlene Rhein [00:55:08]:

Yeah, yeah. You know, he had the decency to at least try to make a connection. These people on their cell phones, like it's as if there is no other world other than theirs. And it doesn't matter how low, how loud they talk. It's like your captive audience to their whole inane conversation about whatever. It's the worst.

Tony [00:55:26]:

And my favorite is the ones that just like do it on speaker. Like as if nobody.

Marlene Rhein [00:55:30]:

Oh my God, like, yes. So you know what I do? I'm so passive aggressive. I'll like take my phone and I'll video record them and then I'll play it back so they can hear their loud conversation. Like play to them as they're on their phone call.

Tony [00:55:45]:

That's hilarious.

Marlene Rhein [00:55:47]:

Yeah.

Tony [00:55:48]:

All right, so tell me, how did you get, for example, with the big shot caller? That was your first, your first feature? How was that process from like pen to paper to final cut pro to actually making it? How do you figure out a budget? How do you figure out, I guess, like the number of actors and characters and stuff like that? You, you know, obviously because you wrote the script. But how do you like scout for locations? Do you need permits? Is it more, less so the need for permits and stuff like that? Because it's not like a production company production or something.

Marlene Rhein [00:56:20]:

Well, so in that case, and I suppose with all like low budget indies, first of all, the script can take anywhere from several months to years to write. In that case, I think it was like maybe six months with writing and rewriting. And I teamed up with a friend of mine who became the producer and she had her own little production company. And you'll always have to have a producer, line producer, come up with a budget and a breakdown. So in that case, the film was going to take 23 days to shoot. I think over the course of four weeks, we had our budget, and that's.

Tony [00:56:53]:

What the line producer figures out.

Marlene Rhein [00:56:56]:

Line producer? Yeah. And, you know, because you have your producer, the creative producer is the one who, like, you know, either has the idea or finds the script and wants to shepherd it and kind of take ownership of it. But then a line producer is someone you usually hire who does the budget and is more in charge of that, you know, the tactile elements of production.

Tony [00:57:19]:

So they, they'll, like, read through your script and say, okay, to shoot this type of scene in this type of location, it'll cost you x amount of dollars. And we have to shoot for x amount of days and so on and so forth.

Marlene Rhein [00:57:28]:

Well, yeah, you break it down first into all the locations, and you figure, okay, we have all these locations, this location daytime, this location nighttime, this many actors. Therefore, if we're doing twelve hour days, it's going to take this many days, this many exteriors. And so they know, like, well, you know, locations will cost roughly this amount of money. Actors rate for SAG, low budget indie is currently, like, for instance, now is 232 a day. So we have this many characters at this much a day, and they break it down according to days and shoot locations, stuff like that equipment. There's a lot that goes into a film budget.

Tony [00:58:04]:

Gotcha. I love that level of, like, granular detail. So when they break that down. Yeah, because for me, I'm trying to, like, liken it to, like, my world of just like, writing books and stuff like that. It seems similar to, like, hiring an editor, for example, that'll, you know, you have a line editor, you have, you can have a concept editor. And it depends, like, what you need. So I'm trying to, like, make that connection with that there. And I definitely appreciate that, that level of detail.

Marlene Rhein [00:58:28]:

Yes, yes. It's a lot goes into it, like the making of the budget, which is preliminary. Then when you find out how much you need, then you go out. And if and when you secure the money, that is when you start locking in dates. You have to put in for permits right away because you're dealing with red tape of a city or whatever, finding locations, hiring a casting director, going through the casting for big and small characters, hiring your key crew, like wardrobe, makeup, art direction, you know, tp, all that stuff.

Tony [00:58:58]:

Like all the different departments.

Marlene Rhein [00:59:00]:

Yes.

Tony [00:59:01]:

So going back to the screen, the budget is, it does it work kind of like. And I guess it's different for, like, every, like, type of film and different, like, level of film and stuff like that. But is it kind of like, okay, this person put up, you know, x amount of dollars, so they own x amount of percentage of the film. Or is it. But is it like, that type of monetary relationship?

Marlene Rhein [00:59:26]:

Yeah. So with investors, it kind of gets worked out depending on what you want it to be. But it's generally speaking, like, investors get 120% of their investment back according to the portion that they funded. Like, let's say it's like 50 50 then, but still it applies. Like, you would divide it after, but it's 120%. And then after they recoup the 120% of profits, then you split 50 50 with the producers, which includes the filmmakers, you know, producers and investors. And it depends, like, if you have one investor or several, but that gets worked out with the entertainment lawyer.

Tony [01:00:02]:

Got it. Okay, so essentially, like, if I'm an investor, I put in $100. I get back $120 before anybody else gets paid anything. And then whatever's left over from there, then everybody, like, splits it according to whatever the splits are.

Marlene Rhein [01:00:15]:

50 50. Exactly.

Tony [01:00:16]:

Gotcha.

Marlene Rhein [01:00:17]:

And what's really interesting, and I just found this out, I was talking to a producer the other day, there is a new. There's a law, or it's been sort of reactivated or reworked, whatever it's called, section 181. And so for any investor investing in a movie that's shot at least 75% in the US, they can claim 100% of it on their taxes. So it becomes a tax deductible write off, I think. Unless the film then makes them a lot of money, then the terms change, I believe. But anyway, for anyone out there who wants to invest in my next movie, just bear in mind you can write it off in your taxes.

Tony [01:00:51]:

Nice. Absolutely, yes. So tell me. Tell me about this next movie. Who is Joi Seracha?

Marlene Rhein [01:00:58]:

Yeah. So who is Joi Seracha is a dark comedy. It's a lot like Christopher guest films, like best in show waiting for Guffman. It is about this woman who is so traumatized by current events that she splits off into three different personalities, and she hooks up with this guy because she's lonely. He's not even the right guy for her, but he is an opportunist. He's a failed musician in a cholo metal band, and he winds up making a documentary about her in order to win enough money to save his abuela's house from going into foreclosure. So basically, he's using her poor mental health to make this documentary. And it's kind of about the violence of today's world.

Marlene Rhein [01:01:39]:

And can you find hope in today's world? Can you find happiness in today's world? But it's also a comedy, and it's very much like a behind the scenes of this documentary with everyone involved in making it. And it's very funny.

Tony [01:01:50]:

That's awesome. I definitely saw the, like, the short, like, the teaser thing that you have for it.

Marlene Rhein [01:01:59]:

Yeah, the teaser I made where. So I play Joi Seracha and I play her three different characters in this video. I play the three personalities. There's this, like, German who talks about all the sex she's not having. Then there's the dominatrix goth who's just like, everything sucks. And then there's the redhead, like, Colombia, New York colombian character. Anyway, and that's if you go to, like, my website, Marlene Ryan.com, marlenerhein.com. there's a pop up for who is Joi Seracha? It'll take you to the page.

Marlene Rhein [01:02:31]:

It's kind of like a gofundme. I partnered with the nonprofit, so all donations are tax deductible. But you'll see the video that I shot on my iPhone with me as the three different characters talking about the film and why you should donate.

Tony [01:02:43]:

Yes, that I definitely saw. And for folks listening, I will link to it in the episode notes as well, along with all of Marlene's links and website and YouTube and all that good stuff for folks to check out also.

Marlene Rhein [01:02:55]:

Awesome. Awesome.

Tony [01:02:57]:

And thank you.

Marlene Rhein [01:02:58]:

Yes.

Tony [01:02:59]:

One last question.

Marlene Rhein [01:02:59]:

Hopefully.

Tony [01:03:00]:

Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Marlene Rhein [01:03:02]:

Oh, yeah. So for anyone who, like, wants to see thoughtful, intelligent comedy films out there that, you know, like, I personally scroll through Netflix, I can hardly find anything I like. But if you're looking for, like, really good, smart drive, funny content, that's inspiring, then support my movies, because that's what I do. Thank you.

Tony [01:03:20]:

Definitely. And supporting creatives is what we love and are all about here at the spot Today podcast.

Marlene Rhein [01:03:25]:

Nice.

Tony [01:03:26]:

One quick technical question that I wanted to ask you about before I let you go. And again, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today and sharing.

Marlene Rhein [01:03:34]:

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. This is awesome. Yeah.

Tony [01:03:36]:

The difference between cinematography and directing my very uninformed take on what it is is that director is like the shot caller running the show, and the cinematography is the person that's holding the camera. And the director might say, you know, point it that way. And I want something from, like, the torso to the person's head or something like that? Is that what it is? Or am I like, just like.

Marlene Rhein [01:04:00]:

Yeah. So basically, like, the. The cinematographer is also called the director of photography, but this, it's kind of like the cinematographer is basically like the photographer, and the director is the. I mean, sometimes is the writer, but is the creators, so to speak. So the director is really, like the big chief, like, the one who's, like, calling the shots. He's like, this is what I want, is what we're going to do. And the cinematographer or the director of photography is basically capturing that through the visuals. Like, the director will say, I want to do this.

Marlene Rhein [01:04:34]:

I'm thinking, like, wide shot, blah, blah. And the director of photography will be like, I'll put on a wide lens, like 25 millimeter, 16 millimeter. And then he'll tell his ac, get me the 16 mil lens out of the kit, and he'll tell the gaffer, let's put that light over there, throw the ring light here, or he'll throw all the technical terms out to his department to set up the shot in the way that the director sees.

Tony [01:04:58]:

Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

Marlene Rhein [01:05:00]:

And then, of course, sometimes you have really bossy director photography who, like, don't agree, and they're like, no, that's ridiculous. This should definitely be a tight shot. We should put a long lens and should go out of focus. And, you know, you have these people, like, insist that they know it's better, and that's a different story. But for the most part, yet, the director's in charge. Yeah.

Tony [01:05:16]:

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. That's always something. I wonder. And that's cool. The. The cinematographer is the photographer. The director of director.

Marlene Rhein [01:05:24]:

Exactly. And for short, DP.

Tony [01:05:27]:

God. Okay. I always thought the, for some reason in my mind, like, the director of photography was like, you know, like, at the end of movies when they show credits and stuff like that and you see, like, still photos, I always thought that was the director of photography, that that's all, like, somebody walking around taking pictures on set type of thing.

Marlene Rhein [01:05:42]:

Oh, no, that's the behind the scenes photographer.

Tony [01:05:45]:

Oh, okay.

Marlene Rhein [01:05:46]:

Nice BTS. Yeah. In fact, I was just talking to the line producer who did my budget for, who was Joi Seracha. I was like, we need money in here for behind the scenes photographer. And that's someone who, like, goes around, takes pictures behind the scenes, interviews people to, you know, that whole thing.

Tony [01:06:01]:

That's awesome. Okay, that sounds like a, like, definitely a dope gig there.

Marlene Rhein [01:06:05]:

All right.

Tony [01:06:06]:

Marlene well, thank you again, once again for taking the time to come on the show. Really, really dope conversation and I can't wait to see who is Joi Seracha and definitely can't wait to see when the base drops after that.

Marlene Rhein [01:06:16]:

Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure talking to you and I'm grateful to have been on your show.

Tony [01:06:21]:

Thanks. Talk to you later guys. Peace. And that folks, was episode 263 of the Spun Today podcast. How dope was that episode? I want to hear all about it. All your thoughts. Hit me up in the comments on IG, Facebook, YouTube, directly on my website, in the comment section, or email me. All of Marlene's contact information will be linked in the episode notes, whether it's the landing page for the who is Joi Seracha? You guys can go support her IMDb, her social media and all that good stuff.

Tony [01:06:55]:

Also, special shout out to Tink media, by the way, which is a dope site where Marlene and I connected and I've connected with other podcasters and potential guests. It's a way for podcasters and guests to interact and go on each other's shows or promote each other's shows. So fellow podcasters out there should definitely check that site out. Tink Media Co. I'll link to that in the episode notes as well. And of course, special shout out and thank you once again to Marlene Ryan for taking the time to come on the sponsor day podcast. You absolutely have an open invitation. I can't wait to see more of your films get made and come to fruition.

Tony [01:07:33]:

That, folks, once again, was episode 263 of the Spun Today podcast. Please stick around for a couple more minutes so you can hear about different ways you can help support this show if you so choose. Until next time, peace. What's up folks? Tony here. I hope you're enjoying the Spun Today podcast as much as I enjoy producing it for you. Here are a few ways you can help support the show. You can support the Spun today podcast financially by going to spuntoday.com. there you will find a couple different ways that you can do just that, some of which will actually not even cost you a dime, such as using my Amazon affiliate link.

Tony [01:08:14]:

When you go to sponsodate.com support, you'll see my affiliate link to Amazon. Click on it and it will take you to Amazon's website where you can do your shopping like normal. This will not cost you anything extra, but Amazon will pay me for driving traffic to their website. If you'd like to support the podcast more directly, you can do so by becoming a patron@spuntoday.com. support you'll also find my Patreon link. This is where creators such as myself can be paid directly by patrons like you. You can either make a one time donation or schedule recurring donations if you so choose. There are also different tiers of support and depending on which you decide to go with, you'll also receive some perks in return, such as early access to content, free digital copies of my books, free bookmarks, etcetera.

Tony [01:09:01]:

That is again, by supporting via my Patreon link available@sponsoday.com support similar to Patreon, at that same location you'll also find my ko fi link as well as my buy me a coffee link. They work very similar to Patreon and are different ways that you can help support the show financially. And last but certainly not least, you have the good old fashioned PayPal donation button. Any which way that you choose to support is greatly appreciated. It all helps me do more of what I love, which is writing and podcasting. Again, go to spuntoday.com support. You can also support the Spun Today podcast by rating and reviewing the show. Wherever it is that you're listening to this episode, I'd really appreciate it because it really does help.

Tony [01:09:46]:

Also, follow me on all social socials on today on X, formally known as Twitter on today on Instagram and Puntoday on YouTube, where you'll not only find full length episodes of the podcast, but also chopped up clips and additional content. And of course, you can follow the Facebook page@facebook.com. spun today another way you can help support the Spun Today podcast and also upgrade that stale wardrobe of yours is by going to spun today.com support and clicking on the banner for Stitch Fix. Once you do, you'll enjoy a $25 discount to your first purchase. And the way stitch fix works is pretty cool. I use it and I've never been disappointed. You'll set up a profile. You'll put in all the sizes for your clothes as well as all the different brands and types of clothes that you like to wear.

Tony [01:10:39]:

It's really simple and intuitive to set up. They'll show you pictures and pretty much give you a thumbs up or thumbs down option on if you would wear something or not. And you get to select all the brands that you already are used to wearing. With this information, there are thousands of passionate, trend setting stylists will curate a stitch fix box for you. They'll send you five items that you get to preview before they mail it to you and you'll get to select based on the image if you like it or not. If not, they'll replace it with something else and if so, they'll mail it to you absolutely for free. You can try everything on and you have a few days to send everything back or keep the stuff that you want to keep. Then you can use that $25 credit that I mentioned towards your purchase of those items again.

Tony [01:11:21]:

To freshen up your wardrobe and also support the sponsor Day podcast. Go to sponsorday.com forward slash support and click on my affiliate link banner for Stitch fix and enjoy your $25 credit. Do you want to start your own podcast? Have a great show idea that you want to get out into the masses but don't know quite how to get it from your head out into the world? Well, here's how. Use the podcast host Lipsyn. That's who I use to bring the Spun Today podcast to you. And now you can use them the same way. Using the promo code spun spun, you can open up your lipsn account today and get two months of free podcast hosting. Here's how it works.

Tony [01:12:04]:

Once you record your show, you upload it to your Lipsyn account where you can fill in your episode notes, upload your podcast art, and schedule when you want your episodes to release. Once you do that, Libsyn will take care of the rest. They'll distribute your show to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and all the other podcasters that you choose instantaneously and seamlessly. Again, go to libsyn.com and use the promo code spun spun to get two months free, or use the affiliate link that's in the episode notes. Again, that's libsyn.com promo code spun. Take that great podcast idea from out of your head and put it out into the world. And as always, folks, substitute the mysticism with hard work and start taking steps in the general direction of your dreams. Thanks for listening.

Tony [01:13:10]:

I love you Aiden. I love you daddy. I love you, Grayson. I love you daddy.